Episode #60 – The Great Listener Debate – Changes vs. No Changes – 3 vs 3


DING!!!!! 60!!!!!

We did it! Sixty episodes of Countdown To Classic! And how do we celebrate getting ready for raiding at Countdown HQ? With a huge special community event!

Listen in as Josh organises six listeners for an old school, 3 vs 3, high school style debate on the topic that has had everyone talking the past 9 months – Changes vs. No Changes!

Listen in to see if your ideals and beliefs were put forward in the best possible way as Josh moderates a semi-formal debate on how we all feel about what’s to come with World of Warcraft: Classic.

Highlights Below:

  • The Great Debate – 3:30
  • Heartfelt Thank You and Many Shout Outs – 1:47:00


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5 thoughts on “Episode #60 – The Great Listener Debate – Changes vs. No Changes – 3 vs 3”

  1. The most interesting topic what you touch on here is whether Blizz will go for the museum version (aka private servers) or the experience version of the game(change loot tables, change instance behavior,remove world buffs etc). For example, playing on a server 1.12 will not give you the authentic vanilla experience, since no one knew anything about the game@ (retail vanilla) and didn’t know anything about where to get or what the “BIS”gear was och they had none of the guided class guides or dungeon encounter guides etc (the game was much harder and demanded even more coop). Releasing the private server version vill not give the vanilla authentic experience. So what are blizz choosing here? After all, they call it the classic experience =). /thanks for a really good and entertaining show !


  2. holy shit, the nochanges crowd is dense. “hypothetically, if there wasn’t any snowball effect”, “dude, snowball effect durr…”


  3. A lot of great points made by both sides in this podcast. I think it all boils down to what Blizzard wants out of Classic. Are they just trying to appease the nostalgic players who have been building up on private servers for the past 10+ years? Or do they want to potentially make a profit off of it? If it’s the former, then I think they should leave the game alone. If it’s the latter, then I think they need to tweak the meta a little bit, fix some of those broken quests, add in some of that unfinished content, and keep the Classic ball rolling well into the future. I’m on the fence myself but I can say that I’d be a bit disappointed if Classic folded after a year or two if/when it turns out nostalgia isn’t enough to justify a monthly subscription.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. Quite honestly, I’m a little disappointed with the no changes crowd. I understand it’s hard to come up with an argument on the spot and it’s much easier to be able to sit there and think about it, but you knew this podcast was coming, you should have made some notes! I’m no changes, but the changes crowd has been very good at putting forward arguments, especially Taladril (sorry if misspelled).

    Here are my contention points with changes:

    Graphics: quite honestly, a toggle option would be a win-win. The only (weak) argument I have against this is if higher graphics offer an advantage (such as higher view distance) and you make it a choice, no one will gimp themselves and play with lower graphics if it means being at a disadvantage, so you will effectively force players who wanted to play an old school, nostalgia trip into a bastardized experience version.

    Quality of Life: 1.12 already had connected flight paths. You chose a path and you didn’t land until you get there, so you didn’t have to keep talking to flight masters and keep flying to reach your destination. I’m with the no changes crowd on this. This person said he JUST wants multi-mail function and a button to land after misclicking a flight – but that’s JUST him, someone else JUST wants to do away with weapon leveling because it’s a pointless time-sink to attack a low-level mob with a new weapon to level it up. Someone else JUST wants the talent points to have an “apply” button so they can play around with their spec before committing to it and hitting apply, so they don’t accidentally put a point in somewhere they didn’t want. And someone else wants WoW tokens, which (considering how WoW Tokens work) could be argued as something that would NOT break the economy because it does not put more gold into the market, it simply shifts it from players to other players and would also help combat gold sellers (who will make their return to WoW). Others will want to implement a change that makes it so a mage cannot need roll on a leather or mail bop armor piece – you could argue that there is no reason for a mage to ever need roll an item he cannot even equip, while others will argue that putting a disenchant roll in would also not be game-breaking because if you have a person in your group who could disenchant, and you will ask them to disenchant it anyway, just make it easy and skip that step and put that button on the roll. None of these would break the game, but put them all together and you have yourself a different version of WoW. Remember how you would reminisce to others and tell them “back in the day, THIS is how the game worked – ahh, the memories” and now you have a chance to relive those memories, except you will still be telling players how ACTUAL Vanilla 1.12 used to be because this is no longer Vanilla, you will still lose out on an important portion of the game, which is its QUIRKINESS! That was PART of the experience!

    Content/1.13 patch: This is to EVERYONE who set out to recreate vanilla experience – you CAN’T. This isn’t about recreating the EXPERIENCE, you cannot put lightning back in a bottle, if you want a fresh, adventurous experience in the SPIRIT of Vanilla, ask for WoW 2, do not take Classic as an opportunity to have Blizzard create a game for you that you’ve always wanted, because you will rob people of a genuine Classic WoW game. This is supposed to be WoW CLASSIC, not Vanilla 2.0! It was never meant to be a living, breathing MMO, there already is one, and the current expansion for that living, breathing MMO is BFA. If you don’t like BFA and want Blizzard to give you a better game in the spirit of the original World of Warcraft, I feel for you, and I hope Blizzard hears you and gives you a NEW MMO that is like World of Warcraft, but perfectly balanced, challenging, living, breathing game that isn’t quirky and full of flaws of Vanilla WoW, but you are jumping on the opportunity to hijack a preservation project and force Blizzard into giving you a new game – I would honestly just go play on a private server then, I am not looking to recreate the Vanilla Experience – certain parts of the game will feel familiar, but I did not experience level 60 or endgame in Vanilla, so to me it will be a NEW experience, and now that I have a chance of seeing how things were back in the day, you are trying to rob me of my genuine vanilla experience. I want my Vanilla WoW game to be Vanilla – warts and all. I have to compromise on things that Blizzard can NOT leave in the game (like certain bugs and exploits) but beyond that, I want an experience that is as true to the original as it can be, and not what the original “could” or “should” have been.


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